Feedback / How do I determine the difference between oldschool and early hardcore

For me the line between oldschool and early hardcore is determined by the basskick. In the end of 1993 it became more and more obvious that there was a new genre lurking its head. Also the gabber (bald heads, aussies) phenomenom became more and more present at parties.

Don't get me wrong, ithe term "hardcore" is already in use since 1991, and the term "gabber" has been around since 1992, for more info on this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi8Ifsxomp4
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5928944236295698435
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1382623916511706658
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6gHwtyvB-k&feature=relmfu


What is your opinion about this, and how does lsdb determine this?

What is the question..? How does lsdb determine what is oldschool and what is early hc!?
Nice question! .. really
Well.. lsdb is managed by it's users and users only, so the users are responsible for making the distinction between these two styles. A lot of sets are tagged incorrectly (or at least incorrect compared to previous tagging), so please don't hesitate when you feel the urge to help out .. get involved

When i look at the videos above.. I only hear oldschool.

this is early ..
http://l5d.nl/sn1b632

en this is oldschool..
http://l5d.nl/sn89e9

..in my humble opinion.

Nice Vids BTW and i would probably go for the third option in the poll.. but i let my ears do the work

What about the Early Terror tag, then?

On 04-06-2012 18:03:31, sinenV wrote:

What about the Early Terror tag, then?

already exists http://lsdb.eu/list/genre/60.html

D.O.A. , Leathernecks, DJ Skinhead, Temper Tamtrum, Bakalla, Nasenblunted, GTI..and old hardest stuff like that

On 04-06-2012 18:03:31, sinenV wrote:

What about the Early Terror tag, then?

I don't think people will easily confuse early terror with oldschool.. but everything is possible.

On 04-06-2012 08:37:11, Vinyl_Vinnie wrote:

For me the line between oldschool and early hardcore is determined by the basskick. In the end of 1993 it became more and more obvious that there was a new genre lurking its head. Also the gabber (bald heads, aussies) phenomenom became more and more present at parties.

Don't get me wrong, ithe term "hardcore" is already in use since 1991, and the term "gabber" has been around since 1992, for more info on this;

What is your opinion about this, and how does lsdb determine this?

In the timeline ...oldskool starts at 80s ending with acid-house roots of DJ Pierre and his crew of Trax Records http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phuture

I think the objective difference is about the speed/BPM and the hard kicks.
A simple way to see the difference is to take this two is to listen two of my big references:

http://www.discogs.com/Various-XL-Recordings-The-Second-Chapter-Hardcore-European-Dance-Music/release/63547

here oldskool was called Hardcore / Techno / Hardcore Techno .. it's techno, but more agressive and dramatic like T99's "Anasthasia" , or the trippy GTO #Listen to the rhythm flow" , Holy Noise's dark breaks with "The Noise" or even the primitive and original Prodigy hardcore breakbeats :P

i got this historic vinyl x 2, inside there's a description of the tracks and the feeling they got.



about the Hardcore, also called Gabber, or Hardcore Techno at that time,
you just take the first Thunderdome CD...and there you have the early hardcore prototypes :P

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Thunderdome-Fck-Mellow-This-Is-Hardcore-From-Hell/release/212384?ev=rr

hard kicks, faster bpms, agressive samples from horror movies or gansgta rappers from US (Carpenter, Paul Elstak as Bonehead or Bald Terror, Speedfreak, Rexanthony, Lenny Dee as English Muffin)

check this vinyl

http://www.discogs.com/Vicious-Delicious-Hocus-Pocus/release/47487

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MLauaNaY8s

B1 - oldskool, hard, slow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbGXdphJmX0

B2 - early hardcore, harder, faster

when i played this, never understood if this version was to be played at 33 rpm or 45 rpm :P

I just posted this to open the discussion, as I see a lot of early hardcore sets in the oldschool section.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the kids nowadays consider a Buzz Fuzz set from 1995 as oldschool.

I just don't... But hey, I've been around just a little longer...

On 10-06-2012 12:31:12, Vinyl_Vinnie wrote:

[...] as I see a lot of early hardcore sets in the oldschool section.

[..]

Pls make comment when you see a set that is tagged incorrect ..so that we can change it

it's not easy to keep the database correct without help .. and the people who will be making these changes do it because they the music ... not because they make money with it or something

On 10-06-2012 12:31:12, Vinyl_Vinnie wrote:

I just posted this to open the discussion, as I see a lot of early hardcore sets in the oldschool section.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that the kids nowadays consider a Buzz Fuzz set from 1995 as oldschool.

I just don't... But hey, I've been around just a little longer...

yeah. for those kids, the early is their oldskool sound

On 10-06-2012 21:27:46, hardcorerepublic wrote:

[...]

Pls make comment when you see a set that is tagged incorrect ..so that we can change it

it's not easy to keep the database correct without help .. and the people who will be making these changes do it because they the music ... not because they make money with it or something

Ok will do

Correct me if my guesstimation is wrong, but to me, Olschool is anything before Masters of Hardcore, Hardcore-wise at least. I won't dare make wrong guesses about other genres

On 19-06-2012 09:48:40, sinenV wrote:

Correct me if my guesstimation is wrong, but to me, Olschool is anything before Masters of Hardcore, Hardcore-wise at least. I won't dare make wrong guesses about other genres

What?

On 19-06-2012 09:48:40, sinenV wrote:

Correct me if my guesstimation is wrong, but to me, Olschool is anything before Masters of Hardcore, Hardcore-wise at least. I won't dare make wrong guesses about other genres

What?

Aye, no more typing at 4am for me...
When it comes to Hardcore music, pretty much anything released before the creation of Masters of Hardcore, should be considered Oldschool, or still Early Hardcore?

Early HC: All of old Hardcore tracks in 90'
Oldschool: old: house, rave, techno, trance, acid-house etc. <1994

Follow the example from Hcr with sets from Laurent Ho and Pavo!

On 19-06-2012 19:08:12, sinenV wrote:

Aye, no more typing at 4am for me...
When it comes to Hardcore music, pretty much anything released before the creation of Masters of Hardcore, should be considered Oldschool, or still Early Hardcore?

Not sure if serious.. but you're wrong in a few ways. Forget about moh .. thats not a good reference point at all!

Patrick is pretty correct about the distinction.. although the term hardcore can also be used in the oldschool category..

Edited by hardcorerepublic on 20-06-2012 02:21

Thanks for the clarification

On 19-06-2012 09:48:40, sinenV wrote:

Correct me if my guesstimation is wrong, but to me, Olschool is anything before Masters of Hardcore, Hardcore-wise at least. I won't dare make wrong guesses about other genres

no, Masters of Hardcore concept was created in 1996 by ID&T, later became MOH org

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Masters-Of-Hardcore/release/250303

a simple way to see Oldschool, is before Thunderdome I - F*ck mellow this is hardcore from hell (1993)

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Thunderdome-Fck-Mellow-This-Is-Hardcore-From-Hell/master/61326

not 100% correct , but simple way to view it

On 19-06-2012 19:29:29, PatrickG88 wrote:

Early HC: All of old Hardcore tracks in 90'
Oldschool: old: house, rave, techno, trance, acid-house etc. <1994

Follow the example from Hcr with sets from Laurent Ho and Pavo!

nop, 1990, 1991 aren't. in 1992 some are, but mostly aren't.

in 1991 the pionner "We Have Arrived" has the basis of hardcore.

http://www.discogs.com/Mescalinum-United-Mover-Planet-Core-Productions-Special-Double-AA-Side/master/6670

and more stuff of Acardipane/PCP stuff

in 1990 Dave Clarke was "Hardcore", but only alias :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLSzsL_EWck