Feedback / Negative voting back?

On 18-04-2012 20:02:33, Haatpiraat wrote:

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You should be thankfull that someone actually had the time to record the set. Sometimes they record it directly from the area where they are actually having the party.

How can you whine about bad audio quality because of that :/

Be glad someone took the time to record the radiostream

Why would you be glad about that when the set is (for example) hardly listenable, I wouldn't be able to enjoy a good set if the quality is so bad, that the tracks don't even sound close to how they should. Example, there is a Da Tweekaz set @ XXLerator, the audio from that one is taken from a youtube vid, I rated it + because I was there and lied the set a lot, but I can understand that if you weren't there, you could/would - for the audio quality, because you might not be able to enjoy it if the audio quality is horrendous.

I've given a set a - before for audio quality, I believe it was Deepack vs Alpha2 @ Knock Out or something, I wanted to listen to the set, but the quality was so bad it was nearly impossible, why would I rate + or even neutral on a set like that. If I did it wouldn't be an accurate description of my listening experience.

Edited by Maximumraver on 18-04-2012 20:12

On 18-04-2012 19:44:04, Maximumraver wrote:

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If that red arrow can now only be replaced with a negative comment, those will eventually cause the same "problems" (of course I cannot look into the future, but it seems logical to assume this.) Then there is the problem, if you can only use a comment to tell people that you disliked a set, you will get people saying "if you don't like the set, why are you even commenting here, stay away then". And, when a set gets (for example e) +20, but nearly has only negative comments, that's unlogical to say the least.

I just think this defeats the point of the rating system, and that that system is (one of) the things the LSDB community is built on

This can be true. Luckily nobody will be that crazy to say that the option to make a comment should get disabled. I think it will be the same as usual.. if the comment is breaking any rules.. it will be deleted and user punished. For me personally this is better to control than when someone is abusing the voting system with red votes.. And it is up to the maker to say "if you don't like the set, why are you even commenting here, stay away then". I don't see a problem here. It doubt these kind of sentences work
Your other point referring to the 'unlogical' situation that could occur because of this new change.... isn't this already happening with the old system? i think so..

And i can nothing say about last point.. just always remember that mstx is doing the changes. maybe best thing to do is to give him new ideas and thoughts for a better working system.

On 18-04-2012 20:21:11, hardcorerepublic wrote:

This can be true. Luckily nobody will be that crazy to say that the option to make a comment should get disabled. I think it will be the same as usual.. if the comment is breaking any rules.. it will be deleted and user punished. For me personally this is better to control than when someone is abusing the voting system with red votes.. And it is up to the maker to say "if you don't like the set, why are you even commenting here, stay away then". I don't see a problem here. It doubt these kind of sentences work

Bot how is someone abusing the system with red votes? As far as I know, the rule is, no listening no voting, regardless of red of green. then you should remove the green votes too, cause they are just as abusable (like what happened with the Coarsection set, double accounts to vote a massive amount of +) or all the polish people upvoting each others sets (no offense to anyone doing this btw, I couldn't really care about it tbh). I just bums me out that I can't rate fairly anymore, with no -, there is no such thing as a +. And if a set sucks, why would I have to comment instead of pressing a button, why do I not have to comment when I like a set?

On 18-04-2012 20:21:11, hardcorerepublic wrote:

Your other point referring to the 'unlogical' situation that could occur because of this new change.... isn't this already happening with the old system? i think so..

It is, but less than with the "new" system, I very often see sets with "happy/cheesy" music or styles downrated, by people who don't like the style, and never listen to it, and I love that kind of music (broad taste bla bla), but I don't mind it, cause everyone knows this happens, and I prefer it over not being able to rate sets at all (in my opinion, no red vote, defeats the point of a green one (repeating myself I know))

On 18-04-2012 20:21:11, hardcorerepublic wrote:

And i can nothing say about last point.. just always remember that mstx is doing the changes. maybe best thing to do is to give him new ideas and thoughts for a better working system.

I know mstx is doing the changes and of course he has the best interests of LSDB and the community in mind, why wouldn't he. But I just think this approach is not the way to go, and many people seem to agree, and that's why I'm posting like a madman, hoping there is something I can do about it

I don't think I have to send all this in a PM to him, I assume he's reading the topic (Hoi bert )

On 18-04-2012 20:12:13, Maximumraver wrote:

[...]

Why would you be glad about that when the set is (for example) hardly listenable, I wouldn't be able to enjoy a good set if the quality is so bad, that the tracks don't even sound close to how they should. Example, there is a Da Tweekaz set @ XXLerator, the audio from that one is taken from a youtube vid, I rated it + because I was there and lied the set a lot, but I can understand that if you weren't there, you could/would - for the audio quality, because you might not be able to enjoy it if the audio quality is horrendous.

I've given a set a - before for audio quality, I believe it was Deepack vs Alpha2 @ Knock Out or something, I wanted to listen to the set, but the quality was so bad it was nearly impossible, why would I rate + or even neutral on a set like that. If I did it wouldn't be an accurate description of my listening experience.

Only thing i meant to say is that rating something minus because the audio quality is bad is the same voting minus on a genre you don't listen to..

Useless and meaningless.

I can't really agree, I wouldn't listen to a set of a style I knew I disliked, but I would listen to a set of I style I do like, if I then find out the quality is horrendous, I could downvote, if I wanted to. Some people care about audio quality, some don't, that's for each person to decide for himself . Some people vote tracklist, others vote mixing skills, and it appears, some vote audio quality .

The whole 'voting negative for style you don't listen' argument is completely exaggerated imo. Hardly ever happens.

It has decreased over time yeah which is good, it used to happen more

Let me begin with the end

On 18-04-2012 20:45:34, Maximumraver wrote:

I know mstx is doing the changes and of course he has the best interests of LSDB and the community in mind, why wouldn't he. But I just think this approach is not the way to go, and many people seem to agree, and that's why I'm posting like a madman, hoping there is something I can do about it

I don't think I have to send all this in a PM to him, I assume he's reading the topic (Hoi bert )

No need for a pm.. this is the way to go It's just that I think that coming up with better alternatives is more constructive than complaining.. not saying that you are only complaining.

On 18-04-2012 20:45:34, Maximumraver wrote:

It is, but less than with the "new" system, I very often see sets with "happy/cheesy" music or styles downrated, by people who don't like the style, and never listen to it, and I love that kind of music (broad taste bla bla), but I don't mind it, cause everyone knows this happens, and I prefer it over not being able to rate sets at all (in my opinion, no red vote, defeats the point of a green one (repeating myself I know))

not sure if i understand.. you are attracted by the red number in front of the set? And without this you won't notice these cheesy sets?

On 18-04-2012 20:45:34, Maximumraver wrote:

Bot how is someone abusing the system with red votes? As far as I know, the rule is, no listening no voting, regardless of red of green. then you should remove the green votes too, cause they are just as abusable (like what happened with the Coarsection set, double accounts to vote a massive amount of +) or all the polish people upvoting each others sets (no offense to anyone doing this btw, I couldn't really care about it tbh). I just bums me out that I can't rate fairly anymore, with no -, there is no such thing as a +. And if a set sucks, why would I have to comment instead of pressing a button, why do I not have to comment when I like a set?

You must have seen some incidents with users down-voting (on a big scale) certain djs/users/events/style/etc..
In the case of Coarsection .. all marked votes are deleted and accounts are gone
And going into main point.. Abusing the voting system with green votes isn't the same as with red votes.. i don't think i need to explain why.
..and your point about 'polish people voting only polish people' .. i can be clear about this.
The abuse I was talking about was mainly about one individual who's doing the abuse. When this is being done collectively .. there is nothing to do .. and nothing should be done i think..

Edited by hardcorerepublic on 18-04-2012 21:21

thank god the red arrow has disappeared

time to kick some sense into why people rate sets red (other then to purposefully rate it down so it won't make it into the top 10)

lsdb can use some more maturity when it comes to that, commenting will improve that.
and for those who worry about flaming comments, isn't that why mods are appointed ...?

Edited by Pithune on 18-04-2012 21:31

The red arrow has been gone for like a year already And you praise less negativity, yet you want to 'kick' some sense into people? Right..

On 18-04-2012 21:16:22, Knomo wrote:

The whole 'voting negative for style you don't listen' argument is completely exaggerated imo. Hardly ever happens.

i kind of agree there though, aside from my post above

I only listen sets I'm interested in. So my ratings are about 1 out of 10 negative, a few more neutral and the other lot are positive. Why do I rate sets neutral? The audio and mc quality is alright but it's just not my thing. Why do I rate negative? The audio quality or annoyance of the mc is unbearable, mixingskills are really bad or the whole thing really upsets me. Which is most unlikely as I explained before.

Furthermore, I agree to this:

On 18-04-2012 19:44:04, Maximumraver wrote:
I just think this defeats the point of the rating system, and that that system is (one of) the things the LSDB community is built on

There is no positive feedback without negative. We only progress by rewarding and rejecting.

On 18-04-2012 21:19:33, hardcorerepublic wrote:

No need for a pm.. this is the way to go It's just that I think that coming up with better alternatives is more constructive than complaining.. not saying that you are only complaining.

I agree My solution is this: bring the red votes back.

On 18-04-2012 21:19:33, hardcorerepublic wrote:

not sure if i understand.. you are attracted by the red number in front of the set? And without this you won't notice these cheesy sets?

I kinda suck at explaining things, but what I meant is, those sets are (as far as I know) most easily affected by "I don't like this style so I'll vote -" votes, and that means, as someone who likes (and spins) that kind of music, I'm am one of the people affected by those negative votes, but if I have to choose between receiving those red votes on my happy sets, or not being able to vote sets red at all. I'll choose the first option. (I hope this is a better explanation If someone knows what I mean, help me out plox )

On 18-04-2012 21:19:33, hardcorerepublic wrote:
You must have seen some incidents with users down-voting (on a big scale) certain djs/users/events/style/etc..

Yes, but why is this a problem? Either the set probably sucks. Or the artist is popular enough that he probably won't care about the -'s he/she gets. (With some exceptions, as has been recently proven )
If downvoting certain things is a problem, upvoting is too, it is up to the person who's set it is how he/she responds with the criticism (redvotes in this case) if that person can't handle it, it is not the problem of LSDB, it is his or her own problem. And if that person decides to not upload any sets anymore, or want them removed, they probably aren't of much value anyway. And "if" this is about maybe getting less traffic because we miss those few sets, I "think" LSDB will get even less traffic if it will become a popularity contest instead of the ratings/top 10 being based on skills (when I first came here, I really liked the fact the people could vote on my set, good and bad, and if the set was good enough, it's rewarded with being in the top 10), of course the +,- system isn't the most accurate system ever and easily abuse able, but removing the -, (which is the same as only having likes) is even more easy to abuse, all you need is sheer numbers, and you are on top, with the +,- system you can't, cause if a set which sucks gets a fuckton of votes from for example the friends or the person who uploaded it, people who notice this set in the top 10, can, if they want, listen to it, and go, wait a second, this set is garbage, and - it.

On 18-04-2012 21:19:33, hardcorerepublic wrote:

The abuse I was talking about was mainly about one individual who's doing the abuse. When this is being done collectively .. there is nothing to do .. and nothing should be done i think..

Unless I understand wrong, this kinda contradicts with "You must have seen some incidents with users down-voting (on a big scale) certain djs/users/events/style/etc.. " ?

Anyway, if this abuse is mainly done by 1 individual, who is it, or what is he doing? If we know we can come up with a specific solution (or just ban him if what he is doing is against the rules)

Edited by Maximumraver on 18-04-2012 22:08

On 18-04-2012 22:07:23, Maximumraver wrote:

I agree My solution is this: bring the red votes back.

On 18-04-2012 22:07:23, Maximumraver wrote:

I kinda suck at explaining things, but what I meant is, those sets are (as far as I know) most easily affected by "I don't like this style so I'll vote -" votes, and that means, as someone who likes (and spins) that kind of music, I'm am one of the people affected by those negative votes, but if I have to choose between receiving those red votes on my happy sets, or not being able to vote sets red at all. I'll choose the first option. (I hope this is a better explanation If someone knows what I mean, help me out plox )

understand..

On 18-04-2012 22:07:23, Maximumraver wrote:

Yes, but why is this a problem? Either the set probably sucks. Or the artist is popular enough that he probably won't care about the -'s he/she gets. (With some exceptions, as has been recently proven )
If downvoting certain things is a problem, upvoting is too, it is up to the person who's set it is how he/she responds with the criticism (redvotes in this case) if that person can't handle it, it is not the problem of LSDB, it is his or her own problem. And if that person decides to not upload any sets anymore, or want them removed, they probably aren't of much value anyway. And "if" this is about maybe getting less traffic because we miss those few sets, I "think" LSDB will get even less traffic if it will become a popularity contest instead of the ratings/top 10 being based on skills (when I first came here, I really liked the fact the people could vote on my set, good and bad, and if the set was good enough, it's rewarded with being in the top 10), of course the +,- system isn't the most accurate system ever and easily abuse able, but removing the -, (which is the same as only having likes) is even more easy to abuse, all you need is sheer numbers, and you are on top, with the +,- system you can't, cause if a set which sucks gets a fuckton of votes from for example the friends or the person who uploaded it, people who notice this set in the top 10, can, if they want, listen to it, and go, wait a second, this set is garbage, and - it.

This was my answer for "Bot how is someone abusing the system with red votes?"
I do agree that this should not be the problem of lsbd... but this brings me back to my first comment

"The option to vote negative for a set is generating to much negative energie.. with some drama stories as a result. So it's not that we only want positive people and positive comments..here on lsdb... BUT this was relatively a simple solution to deal with the bullshit that comes from these negative votes. (this is my personal point of view)"

On 18-04-2012 22:07:23, Maximumraver wrote:

[...]

Unless I understand wrong, this kinda contradicts with "You must have seen some incidents with users down-voting (on a big scale) certain djs/users/events/style/etc.. " ?

Anyway, if this abuse is mainly done by 1 individual, who is it, or what is he doing? If we know we can come up with a specific solution (or just ban him if what he is doing is against the rules)

You misunderstood me.. i'm only talking about individuals here. And yes.. users are banned for this..
.. but this is just my personal input.. so don't consider this the reason for not having the red vote.

On 18-04-2012 19:47:53, Opperhoofd wrote:

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Hard to understand isn't it, loser.

Ga je hond uitlaten speknek... het feit dat je weer ligt de kankeren over iets nutteloos dat niets met het forum te maken heeft, toont jou verstandelijk vermogen sander...

On 18-04-2012 19:44:04, Maximumraver wrote:

[...]


I just think this defeats the point of the rating system, and that that system is (one of) the things the LSDB community is built on

May aswel not have a rating system now if you can't minus a shite set.

The people who go on about people minus sets are usually just yaps (not all). At least when someone minuses your set you can at least ask why then get feed back on why.

The top 10 aswel will just get overflowed with shite sets. It's bad enough as it is at times.

On 18-04-2012 19:47:53, Opperhoofd wrote:

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Hard to understand isn't it, loser.

Getting rid of the red arrow gets rid of the negativity for sure

On 18-04-2012 19:47:53, Opperhoofd wrote:

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Hard to understand isn't it, loser.

On 19-04-2012 10:39:49, djdesudo wrote:

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Getting rid of the red arrow gets rid of the negativity for sure